implementing tabbed-like window stacks, like pop shell

[sound-friend]

something like this. my usual setup is one primary window and one for messaging, but some are seperate apps (like discord) and being able to stack these would be massively beneficial. let me know if you have any suggestions about this!

[YaLTeR]

I've heard this request from a few people already (smolsheep on matrix, sort of @sodiboo, @kchibisov). However, I never used tabbed windows much myself, and also certainly for niri we'll need to adjust the design somewhat. This is to say, I don't really know what the best way to do tabbed windows would be and what UX it should have (i.e. what the keyboard navigation should look like, since niri is more or less keyboard-centric).

Maybe some people can comment on how they envision using tabs and how they should work and we can discuss it?

[sodiboo]

I believe I've participated in discussion regarding tabbing in the past, but it's not actually something particularly high on my wishlist. They're a neat idea, but probably not quite the right fit for niri. I think most of what I would want out of tabbing can be better achieved by having better and more intuitive taskbars and similar such shell components, and some other niri functionalities like some sort of overview mode. That being said, I'm not against the concept of tabs. I'm probably not going to participate much in the initial design discussion about tabbing, but I may comment on whatever comes out of it.

[sound-friend]

i picture using it basically as regular scrolling but overlayed instead of next to each other. so super+right would go on the stack from left to right. this, as i said, would allow me to have a primary and secondary window section without having to manually swap windows.

[nakibrayane]

I could see the utility of tabs in a traditional tiler, where tiling a lot of winodws in a small screen makes theme to small to use. but in a scrolling tiler the windows don't get smaller by adding new windows.

Seeing your windows in a scrolling stack is in my opinion a better workflow then tabs. For example: if you have multiple terminals in tabs they will all be named the same thing (konsole - bash) and you would lose track of which tab has which terminal, looking at the content of the terminal is faster and way easier.

[sodiboo]

if you have multiple terminals in tabs they will all be named the same thing (konsole - bash)

Terminals typically update window title based on the program running, or PWD when just in a prompt. SSH also adds a prefix showing the host. Terminal titles are generally distinct.

[kchibisov]

yeah, the issue with scrolling is that I have no clue about titles of my terminals since i don't see them. Urgency + title updates generally way things way more easy to navigate since you see everything at once, etc.

[kchibisov]

However, I never used tabbed windows much myself, and also certainly for niri we'll need to adjust the design somewhat. This

tabbing +workspaces eliminates all the need for scrolling, since they both solve the issue of windows keeping the same size once you open something new and providing more space.

I'm not sure niri needs this, like those two things co-existing sound a bit strange, I'd say. Like you can surely have a notion of container like in sway and make tabs hard to use because of the amount of key strokes you have to press to get around and having scrolling on top, but it all just sounds like not a great UX.

But I wouldn't say that it's like entirely useless thing, it's just I don't see why you need both at the same time.

That also said, that niri will have to start drawing titlebars, etc.

[YaLTeR]

I actually have one awkward window management case which may be relevant.

I generally keep email, element, calendar, mastodon, discord as browser tabs. I like that they aren't always visible, and yet they are all easily accessible with a mouse click or a keyboard shortcut when I need them.

I kind of want to use Fractal or Tuba or other apps for these, but having them on a scrolling workspace is just awkward, because I don't need them all at once (and in case of email, I want it to be maximized), but scrolling back and forth to get to the right window is also very annoying. I also don't want to pick them on a taskbar window list type of thing.

Maybe WM tabs are a solution here? But then, maybe an overview + hot corner is the solution? When I used GNOME, I used to dump all of these apps into one workspace on top of each other, then use hot corner overview + click on window to super quickly switch to the right one, no tabs necessary.

[kchibisov]

Just having an easy way to switch to specific window(rofi's /apple spotlight switch to window thing) + overview will probably work way better than tabs for scrolling, since you can scroll to nicely, where with tabs everything is usually just instant, etc, and navigation is basically switch workspace + bring window in tab group to front.

It's just sitting on 2 chairs is not a great way to maintain things and both tabbing and scrolling do a bit different UX when done in e.g. WM. Though, it's not like there're many tabbed WMs other than macOS.

[sound-friend]

what do you mean by wm tabs? as in the proposal i gave? nonetheless, i have a similar issue to you it sounds like. i think i personally use the scrolling funcionality different than others lol

[kchibisov]

Yeah, with scrolling you'd open just 2 maximized windows side by side(on your screenshot) and switch between, the same as tabs, you just don't see other window, so nothing really changes here...

[sound-friend]

my issue isnt necessarily the same as above, my setup is this:

where i have a primary and secondary window. tabbing/overlaying apps on the right would simplify things i feel.
(note: this is gnome with paperwm)

[nakibrayane]

The way I wish this would be solved, is showing only the icons of the windows oppened in the current workspace in waybar, and have them arranged the same way they are in the column.

[rabidpug]

In my mind a way that tabs would complement nori's scrolling would be being able to toggle a single column of multiple windows to be tabbed, as that's the only instance where adding windows affects the space of other windows.
That way all the same key binds for interacting with windows within a column would work (so focus window up/down would scroll through the tabs, consume/expel would add or remove a window from the column)

[YaLTeR]

Interesting idea. The tabs could be vertical to signify this.

[sound-friend]

i feel like this would be a smart way to implement it. possibly by showing a stack at the bottom/top of previous and next ones in the "stack". this would compliment niri well i feel,

i also feel like this should be optional, and not enabled by default (?)

[rabidpug]

I like that idea, like the good old accordion.
And yea, in my mind I was thinking a keybind to toggle it on/off on a per-column basis, then a config that could define what the default should be for new multi-window columns (with the default being to maintain current behaviour).
Perhaps that config could be something like tabbed-column-when-windows-exceed # so someone could configure it so a column of 2 windows by default will share the space, then 3+ would switch to be tabbed automatically.

[zetaPRIME]

ooh, yeah, this would be a really nice way to handle this; matches how I use things on i3 too (my i3 setup just tabs every workspace by default)