Editor improvements

[pishifat]

i made a map in lazer and noted things that threw me off. a lot of this is biased because of stable editor familiarity and personal workflows

related #18904

setup

1. starting a map should prioritize audio file selection. stable does this by requiring an audio file before you can access the editor. lazer requires opening the editor first (which is fine), but makes metadata and difficulty settings priority (they're at the top). i feel like you shouldn't even be able to adjust metadata/difficulty settings without having a song chosen, because the song is the basis for everything.
2. the ability to drag an audio file into the editor should be obvious. the current layout makes it look like your only option is to find it through the files directory
3. metadata should be automatically imported from the audio file. stable does this -> Support reading beatmap metadata from ID3 tags in editor #21189
4. difficulty settings should prioritize whole numbers. stable lets me get the numbers i want without fiddling with decimals on a slider or typing a number (it requires holding shift for decimal precision). i'm just whining because stable feels better for choosing normal difficulty values

timing

my map has a lot of timing points, so my complaints are based around heavier-than-usual use

1. allow lower playback rate in the timing tab. for single BPM songs, it's fine to only use 100%. for variable timing, it's necessary to lower playback to recognize individual notes (peppy might argue it's not, but anyone who tries variable BPM timing will say it is lol). as a workaround i timed some of this by going between the low-playback-rate compose tab and timing tab (which sucks as much as you'd expect) (Add a toggle for time-stretching different playback rates in editor #31222 and part of Changes to the editor's timing tab #30295)
2. timeline cursor changes position based on playback speed. i'd often find where i want to change BPM at lower playback rate, then go to timing tab, where my cursor has shifted because of playback rate changes (see video). snapping cursor to the nearest tick when changing playback rate would be ok

rate.mp4

3. timing point selection should be automatic. when adjusting bpm/offset for this map, my cursor was always within the active timing section (except when my cursor was on a timing point and i moved an offset in the positive direction). having to click "Select closest to current time" whenever i want to adjust timing felt redundant, especially coming from stable's automatic timing point selection
4. there should be a way to hear a 2x speed metronome (or 3x if beat snap divisor is in triplets). in stable, holding ctrl in the timing tab does this. it's useful for songs with strong sounds on non-white ticks
5. missing shortcuts for adding/removing timing points. this is probably planned, but these binds weren't set by default in stable, so maybe lazer planned to remove them. (please dont)
6. show decimal values on right-side metronome. it's really weird to adjust bpm by 0.5 and not see the number change
7. clicking a timing point in the timeline should select that timing section". it's a lot more intuitive than the "Select closest to current time" button for me
8. effects timing points are confusing. (see image) something like "enable kiai" and "disable kiai" instead of "kiai" and nothing would be nice

mapping

1. it's hard to process object selection because of how much stuff is onscreen. the rectangle outline and the 5 buttons can be useful, probably moreso if you're unfamiliar with the editor, but for me it's more intrusive than helpful. when i select an object, i'm focusing entirely on the outline of the object, and usually all i want to do is rotate or move it somewhere else, which i accomplish with different tools (Moving Selection Box to a toggle/different tool #29886)
2. adding nodes to a slider should default to perfect curve. stable does this

sliderdraw.mp4

3. invert shift functionality for distance snap. nobody needs that much decimal precision by default + matches stable
4. decimal precision shortcut for distance snap is missing. in stable, alt+scroll changes ds by 0.1x and alt+shift+scroll changes ds by 0.01x. the latter is missing in lazer
5. distance snap is incorrect after sliderends. it's based on slider velocity for the object after a slider, but not the following objects. see video (Distance snap not snapping to radius #21347)

2024-12-22.10-55-32.mp4

6. there's no good way to make streams using distance snap. see video of common workflow in stable vs how that goes in lazer. while the ring-based distance snap is good for fully distance-snapped maps, it makes streams really obnoxious apparently a setting resolves this slightly. still sucks for adjusting a stream after it's placed though (in lazer, you need the timeline cursor on the same position as the object to adjust with ds, whereas in stable, the timeline cursor can be anywhere for this)

stablevlazer.mp4

7. pressing enter after inputting rotation degrees should close the rotation window. i now have muscle memory to double tap enter to close that window, which seems stupid
8. pressing enter on sv input should close the window. basically the same as the rotation complaint, except this one doesn't close even when hitting enter twice lol
9. right click to enable new combo is missing. stable has this (Add back right-click-for-new-combo and right-click-delete when in compose mode #31148)
10. sv should be set before placing slider. my usual workflow is "set sv -> create slider" (how it works in stable), not "create slider -> set sv -> create slider for real" (how it works in lazer) (Lazer Editor: Slider Velocity #31157 and Slider velocity should have a slider in the right inspector area #29309)
11. slider nodes should be on top of rotate/flip buttons. for example the last node on this slider is hidden (Editor - Pattern controls sometimes obstruct the anchors #24218)
    
12. spinners shouldnt look the same as sliders in the timeline. stable gets around this by giving them a new combo and making them gray every time
13. selecting objects near a spinner sucks. it selects the spinner too often when i'm trying to select other objects. stable only selects spinner if you click in the exact middle, which feels a lot better.

2024-12-22.11-30-53.mp4

14. pasting notes should act the same as placing new notes with regards to snapping. it'd match stable. currently, pasting notes puts them exactly where timeline cursor is (often not an exact tick), while placing new notes puts them on nearest tick.
15. missing input for exact x/y coordinates. this thing from stable:

16. making small adjustments to object placements or slider nodes is annoying. you need to move the mouse a certain amount to get either of those things to move. it's intentional but it's really frustrating coming from stable, where this isn't a thing.

2024-12-22.12-07-20.mp4

hitsounding

1. inherted volume after a slider should be based on the sliderhead. i silence a lot of sliderticks, so this unintentionally led to a lot of muted circles (see video). it also shouldn't inherit based on the sliderend, because sliderends are often silenced too

silent.mp4

2. hitsound volume input should be automatically selected when clicking the pink badge below objects. 99% of the time i clicked these badges, it was to change volume, so having to click the volume input box each time sucks.
3. there's no way to select components of sliders on the playfield. in stable i often hitsound by selecting objects on the playfield. see video for example of hitsounding sliderheads with whistles this way. lazer doesn't allow this because slider selection is always the entire object

2024-12-22.11-43-11.mp4

4. can't use hitsounding shortcuts with volume input focused. basically i want to type "22w" to quickly change volume to 22 and set a whistle, but i can't because it'll add the w to the volume input. this makes hitsounding super slow
5. i want to set an object's addition bank before setting its hitsound. for example, in stable you can select an object -> ctrl+w to set normal addition bank, then press E to add a finish. in lazer, i'm forced to add a finish, then set the normal addition bank
6. samplesets should be selectable. stable does this already, and having to type them in manually in lazer is nuts (Improve slider bank selection by adding buttons with default banks #30786)
7. custom samplesets don't exist. i assume this feature is planned because every map uses them lol (might be related to Custom hitsounds do not persist using "Edit externally" #29028)
8. sometimes hitsounds play on nothing. i'm not really sure how this happens, but i encountered it a few times. i also had an issue of hitsounds sometimes not playing at all with the same behavior (potentially related to Editor hitsounds occasionally don't play due to frame stability #26559)

wh.mp4

9. there should be a way to handle variable volume for slider bodies + spinners. it's common to change volume for a spinner or sliderticks gradually depending on a song's buildup/fadeout. for spinners, it's especially common to have different volume for the impact at the end vs the spinning portion (partially related to Spinner sample point should be at the end time on the timeline #29338)
10. there should be a way to select multiple pink badges for volume adjustments. in stable, i could change all the 66% points at once in the F6 menu (below). in lazer, there's no way to do this aside from adjusting every object manually (very difficult when sliders can't be selected without affecting all parts of the slider) (partially related to Add the ability to select multiple timing points like stable #23105)

11. lazer should maintain the addition bank when removing hitsounds. this (see video) happened to me a lot, but in stable it doesn't because the addition bank is saved

2024-12-22.11-59-38.mp4

[cihe13375]

Hi pishifat!

some more related issues:

lower playback rate in timing #30295 #31222
it's hard to process object selection because of how much stuff is onscreen #29886
distance snap is incorrect after sliderends #21347
sometimes hitsounds play on nothing or don't play #26559 (idk if it's the same cause)

some comments from my own:

timeline cursor changes position based on playback speed: this is likely Windows specific (I can reproduce this on Windows but not on Linux)

starting a map should prioritize audio file selection: I agree that the audio track selection should be at a more obvious place (currently it's not even on the screen by default). However, I found it convenient sometimes to change settings and place objects without an audio file, mainly for creating minimum examples for bug reports (lol).

[pishifat]

i added these to the first post, thanks!

[felipemarins]

I agree with most of this list and I appreciate pishi for dedicating his time on making it.

I just disagree with the "moving selection box to another tool" part, mainly because I'm too used to vector graphics editors like Inkscape (I think Illustrator also works like this) that treats it as part of the same tool. As you said, maybe that's also because I'm not familiar with the stable editor, but if this behaviour is implemented as the new default without any option to go back to the current one, I would see this change as a downgrade personally.

I pretty much agree with the rest of the list. Happy holidays, pishi.

[felipemarins]

Yeah, I agree that the selection box takes more space than it should on lazer. I just wanted to comment on the general idea of it being part of the same tool, as I almost never see someone with diverging opinions (apart from the devs) when a discussion about it appears on GitHub.

[dotremilie]

Hi, I'd like to add that I made a discussion regarding that, as I see that as one of many reasons the lazer editor is just unusable to me. More details here -> #29886

[felipemarins]

That is the same discussion that was already linked here.

Edit: just to clarify, I wouldn't mind your original proposal of it being a toggle that stays selected even after changing the selection. But, as you can read on the discussion thread, it seems that peppy doesn't like that.

As an alternative, I would prefer it to keep being part of the Select tool, but with a much less distracting visual, like, for example, hiding it until your cursor is near the edge of the selection box. Also, having it be a thinner line than it currently is would also be an improvement for me.

[dotremilie]

I guess I didn't read the post that thoroughly to notice.. my bad

[felipemarins]

No problem. It actually reminded me of the original proposal that you had on the video, and I would totally fine if that was the change.

[kelinimo]

Very good post!
Something else that can be improved is that "Save the beatmap" dialog when pressing F5 (testplay the beatmap) should pause the song if it's still playing. Or at least the testplay should start at the point where you click F5.

[kelinimo]

One other thing is selecting objects feels very off. I couldn't say what makes it feel so bad, but one thing i could pinpoint is this:

only applies to selecting objects when "Show hit markers" is off

2024-12-26.13-28-54.mp4

you can see here that when slider is not visible on screen you can't select it, but with a circle it's still selectable for a very long while.

[BMcGraw1215]

In addition to starting a beatmap, I also think Lazer should force you to save the beatmap with a name and other basic data before letting you into the timing/editor, with the idea that there's no reason it shouldn't.

[dotremilie]

First of all, I wanted to say that I agree with most, if not all of the things you mentioned.

it's hard to process object selection because of how much stuff is onscreen.

I'd like to further develop this point because opening lazer editor makes my brain cells evaporate when it comes to that and it's not only because of the selection box. Everything in the editor just wants the attention and the problem is rooted in the fundamentals:

• Teal tint to everything that could be just easily removed and set to gray would already make a huge difference.
• When you hover on a box everything else also highlights. Funnily enough the variable responsible for that behavior is called something like composerFocusMode and instead provides exact opposite feeling.
• There is no ability to actually hide a toolbox. While having e.g. the "Slider" toolbox for hand drawn sliders is cool I don't see many people using it as it's mostly less reliable than hand-crafting the slider. With the current hiding option I still can see the name and can accidentally hover over it. I'd like to just hide it and whenever I need it again mark a toggle in View tab.
• Unnecessarily big radio buttons for bank selection and grid type selection that are or would likely be a dropdown in stable. This also contributes to lowering visual hierarchy because of selected state of button.
• Unnecessary backgrounds on everything. The background behind each of the panels could be removed because each toolbox has their own background anyway. This makes me feel claustrophobic and shout "Look at me!".
• One thing I stumbled upon was about the Timing button. A friend asked me where he can add the timing points, so I naturally said - in the timing section at the top. He clicked the timing dropdown instead. I have no idea why they were made to look the same.

Some other things worth mentioning are:

• Value sliders should have an input. Specifically the grid toolbox sliders. Having to deal with decimals is tedious and there is no clear way of reseting the slider. I assumed it's possible, tested some inputs and apparently doubleclick does that. There should be also some Presets dropdown with the options that G shortcut changes (ideally it should also present a toast, as stable also shows an information that grid size changed)
• No percentage of audio progression, it's much more useful than the displayed BPM.
• How do I change the volume in editor? Stable has that thing that if you hover over playfield you edit distance snap and when you hover outside of the playfield you change the volume with Alt+Scroll.
• More buttons for audio manipulation should be visible, ideally the same as these (corresponding to Z/X/C/V shortcuts)
  
• One concern I have about the volumes being visible all the time is that many mappers are not hitsounding while mapping and volumes are hardly ever used per object, so lowering the visibility of them is a must. Ideally, some extension of Timeline based timing screen #31266 proposal and some other Marvin's prototypes, would be best for hitsounding experience. Additionally, with current implementation gradually changing the volume during object, or generally any hitsounding change, is not possible. Mentioned in No Audio From Mid-Slider Hitsounds In Lazer #29621
• Spinner can be selected ahead of it's start time in editor #27604

I also worked a bit on a slight redesign in figma that addresses most of the things I mentioned here. https://www.figma.com/proto/hrs5XEUM5i5oSR83u5FFBj/osu!-editor-revamp?node-id=4-15&t=7fIplGxm1bO4ZDGO-1

[kongehund]

Alt+scroll is a recent/temporary issue caused by a regression #31267

[felipemarins]

I don't have much issue with the current editor design, but I'm interested in how the selection box works in your figma. I think that a second click on the selection to make it appear works pretty well for me, and is similar to how Inkscape works in relation to the rotation controls.

[dotremilie]

I think that a second click on the selection to make it appear works pretty well for me, and is similar to how Inkscape works in relation to the rotation controls.

Most of the things in the figma are just a visualisation, not a fully working prototype. This just indicated that there is a separation of states for selection and the transform box, you can see I've put the Freeform tool on the left in Transform toolbox, similar to the #29886