'Update is available' shown too many times for the same build

[Jeehut]

The update notice is currently placed at the top of the chat list, which is the place which Signal trains the user to check most often. Also it's as big as a chat bubble and has huge buttons.

That's why the frequent updates of Signal (which is a good thing in itself) feels like a bad thing for many users as reported already in this issue on GitHub or on this thread on Reddit.

I suggest you place that information elsewhere in the UI, anywhere else will be an improvement, really, for example as a sticky view at the bottom of the list instead of the top. Also, I suggest to make the hint and buttons much more subtle. One step could be to make the text and buttons in general smaller. Another idea would be to go a totally different approach and just show some kind of circle somewhere (like the top right of the screen) and on the App Icon which points to an available update. The info that an update is available and the buttons would then appear only once the circle is clicked. That's a very common practice so users should understand it intuitively.

If you really want to stress updates due to security reasons, I suggest to take a 2-step approach:

• in the first 30 days of an available update, use a subtle hint that it's available
• when the user did not make an update for more than 30 days, show it like it's shown today

[scottnonnenberg-signal]

We've put a lot of effort into considering the various tradeoffs involved in design and perceived urgency of updates, and the current design is something we're comfortable with.

I will note that we are considering making the 'Update is available' alert a little smaller so you can see more items below it in the left pane.

[Jeehut]

Closing user feedback like this without objective explanation why is a really disappointing action that I didn't expect. "We're comfortable with (the current design)" is a really subjective explanation which doesn't actually explain your rationale at all. You could replace it by "I don't care what you think as a user, I am always in the right" which would hold the same amount of information and actually has the same overall sentiment (just makes it more explicit).

Why are you comfortable with the current design? Maybe you consider it important for security reasons? Did you see my suggestion for that case? Please explain it to me, so I can understand your decision making and don't feel like you're just too lazy or disrespectful to consider my feedback. I really did take the time to think about it and write together a suggestion to improve it for the users and although I don't have the same view as you guys and can't know all things that matter here, I still feel like I (and everyone else who's having the same complaint) deserve to understand why we need to live with that annoying experience.

Also, without a reason why you think the current design is good, a healthy discussion on how or if it can be improved is impossible. The way this issue was closed although I showed you that this is a big enough problem to tackle (as there are many users experiencing this issue) is a really bad sign for Signal. It really doesn't give the feeling the the user experience is considered as an important topic here and the developer experience is always preferred.

I hope that this was an exception and other users feedback is considered more thoroughly.

[josh-signal]

We recently implemented a new update behavior which our designers put a lot of thought and care into. This change addressed a lot of the issues around updates like the reddit thread and the GH issue you linked to.

We do value your feedback and are considering one of your suggestions, specifically:

One step could be to make the text and buttons in general smaller.

[darule0]

This seems broken still. Updates should be every 3 months at the shortest resolution unless there is an emergency. It seems to be updating every time the signal code changes.

[hiebj]

The experience on OSX for this is really, really frustrating. I am pestered very nearly every single day with an extremely interruptive request from Signal to "install a helper tool" by popping up a dialog front and center on top of everything else I'm doing. I have to enable admin privileges to install this helper tool, which is a pain due to my workplace security settings. Hitting "cancel" does not make it go away; it comes back, usually within a second. Hitting "cancel" repeatedly simply begins a thrilling game of whack-a-mole.

As if that weren't enough, the updates seem to fail at least half the time, resulting in a popup that never goes away no matter how many times I put in my password. The only way to resolve it is to force quit and completely reinstall. That's another issue, but overall it results in a godawful experience.

Whatever it is you guys decide to do about update frequency, you should at least stop popping an os-level authentication request to install stuff without me even asking to update or clicking on the update alert. The giant yellow update alert is clear enough, it's infuriating to have an app that pesters me for updates with OS dialogs that refuse to go away.

[scottnonnenberg-signal]

@hiebj Would you be open to entering a new bug about this specific non-admin scenario? To be clear, you see the 'Install a Helper Tool' dialog before you see the update banner in the app, or click 'restart now?'

[hiebj]

@scottnonnenberg-signal Presumably, the update banner renders at the same time the dialog pops up. I have Signal running minimized a lot of the time. This happens most often when I log in after having left my computer for a while. Even if I don't click on the banner or even focus Signal the dialog will pop up when my windows are restored.

I may create a bug for it the next time it happens and I can provide more specific information.

[tihomir-kit]

Please do something about this.. at least provide the option to disable the notification message, and signal can update the next time it's restarted..

[scottnonnenberg-signal]

All: There's a new option: 'Automatically download updates.' I expect that disabling that will give you a user experience closer to what you're looking for.

[tihomir-kit]

Thanks. However, I think people do want updates, just don't want to be notified about them so frequently. Silent updates would be perfectly fine.

[scottnonnenberg-signal]

@tihomir-kit We've found that 'so frequently' really varies for folks, and in fact that lack of clarity has hidden real bugs. We release updates about once per week. Do folks in this thread see update notifications more often than that? If you do, we're interested in working with you to figure out why updates aren't applying properly.

[darule0]

Hi, Thanks for the followup. I think the mechanism for restarting to get update is ok. It's just that weekly update ismore frequant than any other desktop app I have had. Maybe a configuration option (on by default) to pullan update quarterly as alternative to weekly for the desktop version. Also, some of us in states that don't have rural internet infrastrucuture and are limited to < 1 mbps internet. On Thursday, October 7, 2021, 01:11:34 PM PDT, Scott Nonnenberg ***@***.***> wrote: @tihomir-kit We've found that 'so frequently' really varies for folks, and in fact that lack of clarity has hidden real bugs. We release updates about once per week. Do folks in this thread see update notifications more often than that? If you do, we're interested in working with you to figure out why updates aren't applying properly. — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe. Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS or Android.

[josh-signal]

Also, some of us in states that don't have rural internet infrastrucuture and are limited to < 1 mbps internet.

Check out Preferences. There's a setting to disable the automatic download of updates

[darule0]

got it thanks!

[aleckxss]

I would pretty much like to have an option to auto download updates then auto update on next startup tough. It would minimize the impact of the updates on the user experience.

[josh-signal]

I would pretty much like to have an option to auto download updates then auto update on next startup tough. It would minimize the impact of the updates on the user experience.

That's how it works now by default!

[elivox]

Chiming in to say that the update UX (in an otherwise lovely piece of software) is among the worst I've experienced.

I would have guessed that I'm prompted to manually restart the Windows client at least every other day. I'll start writing down how often it actually is, so we can see if I'm getting the intended experience.

I'm perfectly happy to have frequent updates. I'm not so happy to have each one require an intrusive notification or a disruptive UI element that demands workflow-impeding manual actions.

[elivox]

We've found that 'so frequently' really varies for folks, and in fact that lack of clarity has hidden real bugs. We release updates about once per week. Do folks in this thread see update notifications more often than that? If you do, we're interested in working with you to figure out why updates aren't applying properly.

@scottnonnenberg-signal Since my comment 5 days ago, I have been prompted to restart Signal 3 separate times. Is that not expected behavior?

It's a nuisance given that it generates an attention-grabbing alert (as though I had received a message) every time an update is ready, and reduces functional area to add the UI element prompting restart.

It would be terrific to see Signal's update process handled in a less intrusive way.

[scottnonnenberg-signal]

@elivox I expect that you're on production (version numbers without 'beta')? You can see our releases here: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/releases. 5.23 was released 11/3, and 5.22 was released 10/27. Sounds like you might have some problems with updates not applying successfully.

A debug log might be good, but will only capture three days of history. Still, might as well provide it, and we'll see if we can find any hints.

[darule0]

We are all passionate about Signal because it is the only viable communications tool out there. We all hope that this excessive update notification issue is fixed because we want more users on Signal, friends, family, coworkers, etc. This long running bug in signal makes a lot of people we share signal with think there is something wrong with it. Recommend making this a high severity fix at this point.

[darule0]

Anyone with the knowhow to fix this and submit a pull request?

[elivox]

@scottnonnenberg-signal Yep, I'm on production (currently 5.23.0). I did check the release notes this time around, and can confirm that the notifications aren't timed with new releases.

debug log here, generated just now: https://debuglogs.org/176a1b91881fa898041e0da467b1fe3282419fc862fcd89e8276c0cc5ad9e258.gz

3 days coverage would be enough to capture the last update notification I received, but not necessarily the 'successful' update that bumped me to 5.23.

If it helps, in an informal survey of 3 friends using Signal Desktop for both Mac and Windows, 3/3 report excessive update notifications. I'd guess the source of the issue is not highly particular to my setup.

[scottnonnenberg-signal]

@elivox Thanks for your log - looks like you saw the 'update available' dialog for 5.23 twice. The first time you shut down without selecting to install it - did you expect the update to happen then?

There was a time you at least started downloading the new version (2021-11-05T01:20:42.173Z), but a dialog wasn't shown after that.

Does that match with your memory of what happened?

INFO  2021-11-05T01:19:44.005Z starting version 5.22.0
INFO  2021-11-05T01:19:48.375Z downloadUpdate: Downloading update https://updates2.signal.org/desktop/signal-desktop-win-5.23.0.exe
INFO  2021-11-05T01:20:11.602Z downloadAndInstall: showing dialog...
INFO  2021-11-05T01:20:35.112Z close event {"readyForShutdown":false,"shouldQuit":false}
INFO  2021-11-05T01:20:35.180Z close event {"readyForShutdown":true,"shouldQuit":true}
<immediate restart - should update have applied here?>
INFO  2021-11-05T01:20:38.715Z app ready
INFO  2021-11-05T01:20:38.716Z starting version 5.22.0
INFO  2021-11-05T01:20:42.173Z downloadUpdate: Downloading update https://updates2.signal.org/desktop/signal-desktop-win-5.23.0.exe
INFO  2021-11-05T01:20:43.770Z close event {"readyForShutdown":false,"shouldQuit":false}
INFO  2021-11-05T01:20:43.784Z close event {"readyForShutdown":true,"shouldQuit":true}
<offline for a while - shut down computer?>
INFO  2021-11-05T21:55:58.942Z app ready
INFO  2021-11-05T21:55:58.942Z starting version 5.22.0
INFO  2021-11-05T21:56:04.724Z downloadUpdate: Downloading update https://updates2.signal.org/desktop/signal-desktop-win-5.23.0.exe
INFO  2021-11-05T21:56:29.600Z downloadAndInstall: showing dialog...
INFO  2021-11-05T22:08:51.503Z windows/install: installing package...
INFO  2021-11-05T22:08:52.333Z before-quit event {"readyForShutdown":false,"shouldQuit":true}
INFO  2021-11-05T22:08:52.413Z close event {"readyForShutdown":true,"shouldQuit":true}
INFO  2021-11-05T22:09:00.495Z starting version 5.23.0

[elivox]

Interesting. The timeline adds up, though I have no specific memories of the process. Thanks for taking a look!

But I'm not sure that the question of when I expected the update to happen is quite the right question.

That's because, as a user of Signal, I use the app for exactly one reason: instant messaging. I open it to read or send messages, and I close it if I'm shutting off my computer or I need to focus.

Updating the application is not instant messaging. It's not why I open the software, it's not why I close it, and it's not something that I want to think about while I'm using it.

Updates are very important! I'm glad that they happen -- but in the same way I'm glad that memory is garbage collected. I have nothing to add to the process, and I am happy to be left out of the loop.

I totally get that complaints about an (ideally) once-weekly notification sound petty, especially when the notification is, "hey, we did a bunch of work to improve your experience." But the practice has a real cost.

1. It simulates receiving a message. Getting an alert from my messaging app which is not a message degrades the channel substantially. Notifications become (forgive me) a noisy signal.
2. It turns the tool into a task. An alert that says "Click to restart Signal" adds an item to every user's mental to-do list, every single time. Yes, resolving the task is as easy as clicking the button and waiting for the application to relaunch -- but the mental overhead of rearranging a user's priorities on the fly far exceeds the raw time cost of the action item.
3. It damages trust in the application. Taskbar alerts and prompts for user action are, by far, not the normal pattern for handling software updates. For example, my web browser silently downloads updates in the background, and silently applies them on restart. Whether or not it's fair, breaking from what are seen as best practices creates an appearance of... for lack of a better word, jankiness.

In light of these downsides, I have to wonder what the benefits are? Having those benefits well-communicated to the end user would go a long way to improving the perceived quality of the application.

---

(P.S. -- I did just recently get the update notification, and clicked to restart. Checking the app's about, it looks like I moved to 5.23.1 without issue. Based on what you've said, I'd be as surprised as you if I see another alert before 5.23.2, and I'll share the debug log if that happens.)

[tobyjohnm]

Just want to jump in and voice my agreement with others. The update pace and obtrusiveness is way over the top. Even weekly is too often. I will upgrade to get new features at my convenience, thank you.

[scottnonnenberg-signal]

@tobyjohnm We release about once a week, and in some weeks we need to release an extra build to fix an important issue. If you're seeing more 'update is available' notifications than that, we'd love to get some debug logs from you to figure out why updates are sometimes failing.

[darule0]

@scottnonnenberg-signal One possible fix would be to have a configuration option to make the weekly maintenance updates quiet (e.g. when users want them to happen in back ground without being prompted in the UI).

[elivox]

I'm not certain we've communicated the point clearly.

We do understand that (ideally) weekly update prompts are what you expect to happen. The concern is that this looks and feels like a bug to end users.

In general, Signal's intended features are not routinely mistaken for bugs. It may be productive to explore what makes this feature different.

---

To provide another data point, I've just questioned another Signal Desktop user, who said this: "I'm not sure if the update thing reappears too often, because I don't even bother clicking it anymore. It's just always there. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether I click it or not, so I just got used to it."

If that's not the desired outcome, then I have to suggest that the feature may not be working as intended.

[tobyjohnm]

@tobyjohnm We release about once a week, and in some weeks we need to release an extra build to fix an important issue. If you're seeing more 'update is available' notifications than that, we'd love to get some debug logs from you to figure out why updates are sometimes failing.

I received another dreaded update notification today. Here is the debug log. I'm pretty sure that when I commented 5 days ago it was because I had seen multiple updates within the past week.

debuglog.txt

[scottnonnenberg-signal]

@tobyjohnm We released 5.28.0 to production today. You can see our complete list of releases here: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/releases

[tobyjohnm]

"New year, new initial setup screen. We've redesigned the initial setup screens just in time for 2022."

Do you see the absurdity of nagging ALL of your users to download 100MB+ update to get an enhancement that likely has 0 benefit to them?

Again, if people have problems then they will likely look for an update. If things are running great, I don't want to be constantly updating because somebody decided to try a new font this week.

[darule0]

I think it is still important to push updates even feature enhancements for this kind of client software. Would be nice to have the configurable option to make it done quietly instead of being prompted in the UI weekly is all. The only case where I would possibly want be prompted in the UI is if the update was regarding a security vulnerability fix.

[tobyjohnm]

Agree, not saying to take away anything. I just want the option to not be bothered (maybe only for major security fixes, kudos for having multiple choice e.g. prompt for updates: never/security-related/all).

[tobyjohnm]

Joy, I received an even nastier message in a big red box today. "This version of Signal Desktop has expired. Please upgrade to the latest version to continue messaging."

It's been about a month since I updated to 5.28 and nothing since then looks remotely interesting. Mostly "This version contains a number of small tweaks and bug fixes to keep Signal running smoothly." Nothing [obviously] security related.

[Giszmo]

Not sure if this is the right place but on Debian the system messages that there is an important security update - perceived like every day - requiring a restart of my machine is just unacceptable for a chat client. I don't mind updating my system frequently but I do mind having to restart it.

[Julime]

I got so angry at this software that i thought about dns blocking the update server locally to remove this stupid update button. It is YEARS since users started complained about this! How can it be so difficult to do silent updates? Even Windows updates are not this annoying.

[RainOrigami]

I appreciate the effort to improve the app, but I must express my annoyance with the extremely frequent updates. It has reached a point where it is odd to not see the blue update banner on Signal. While I understand the importance of keeping the app up-to-date, it has become quite ridiculous. I am puzzled as to why Signal needs to update so frequently, as no other application I use requires such constant updates. Is there not a standard practice in software engineering for versioning and bundling changes into larger updates? I hope this matter can be addressed in a more reasonable manner going forward.

[kaktusztea]

Usually there is one update per week. Sometimes an urgent hotfix is needed.

[darule0]

recommend doing what ever updates are needed. can always add a checkbox "quietly perform updates" so that user's are not involved in the weekly update process

[payne747]

It's a lot, last four updates Signal has reported: (UK date format)

19/05/23
6.18.0

23/05/23
6.18.1

25/05/23
6.19.0

01/06/23
6.20.0

[jbaconsult]

recommend doing what ever updates are needed. can always add a checkbox "quietly perform updates" so that user's are not involved in the weekly update process

If you follow best practise of computer handling you can't update an app without entering a password, Some people (as me f.e.) are on corporate machines. That means I need to increase my user right level with a given process to allow Signal to update itself. This takes some time and really is annoying. If I could choose, I would like to get a "collective" update once a month and only important hot fixes in between.

[hellfirehd]

Several members of my family are refusing to use Signal because it annoys them with so many updates. I have to wonder how many other people do not use Signal for the same reason.

[RainOrigami]

I think this whole issue could be easily solved if just signal would automatically update when it is restarted, like from a Windows restart.
I shutdown my computer every day and most, if not all applications, will use that next startup to just automatically update upon startup.
Except signal, which just keeps showing the blue update banner until I actually manually click it.

There should be no reason why the update would require manual intervention from me and couldn't happen automatically when signal restarts anyways.

[faloude]

2024, bug still ongoing. Updates available at least once a day

[RainOrigami]

2024, bug still ongoing. Updates available at least once a day

No, as described previously, the problem is not that there is a daily update, it's that restarting the application, for example by restarting windows, does NOT update the application like ANY OTHER APP DOES.

You HAVE TO PUSH THE BUTTON like it's 2004.

[faloude]

No, as described previously, the problem is not that there is a daily update, it's that restarting the application, for example by restarting windows, does NOT update the application like ANY OTHER APP DOES.

So the insane amount of updates is actually real and not just failed updates. I never bothered to check the versions after updating each time and simply assumed the updates just failed. Well, not a dealbreaker for this fantastic application but boy is it annoying..

[zgrow]

We've put a lot of effort into considering the various tradeoffs involved in design and perceived urgency of updates, and the current design is something we're comfortable with.

Does this mean you are comfortable with the amount of pushback you are getting about the intrusiveness of this user interface "feature"? Because asserting your comfort as being more important in this case seems a shade condescending to me. Perhaps I am just seeing some frustration at being asked to revisit this issue?

It's not the cadence of the updates, it's the user interface problem. All I want is to open the program and send a message without having to interrupt my train of thought. That's not what's happening. It feels as though every day I turn on my computer and make one of the four choices below in regards to the update warning:

• Ignore it, which is obviously not great, but I suspect is what most people do, because it's easier to zoom out a bit so that the warning is smaller since that's a permanent change, unlike...
• Acknowledge that I want to skip it. I'm still not sure if this just means "try again in 24 hours" or "try again when the next update comes out"? Knowing which it is would actually make a difference to me personally.
• Acknowledge that I want to immediately go ahead and update: in the name of due diligence this would mean finding and reading a changelog first, which will probably not contain anything personally critical or relevant, because that's the nature of daily updates. This also means dropping whatever I was doing at the time, because we're all human and such is the nature of our attention span.
• Acknowledge there is an update and agree to the update without bothering to check any of the details.
  This does not seem useful to anyone: as a developer myself, I know how crazy-making it is when the users don't bother to read the changelogs. Yet as a user, and with many less-technical friends who use this application, it's far less friction altogether to click through it and wait it out than to do the due diligence. I have to assume this is not what the Signal development team wants to happen, because if so, it would be easier all around to make the updates automatic and required in the same way that Discord does.

If there were a 'stable' release of Signal I could subscribe to, instead of having to be on what feels very much like a 'nightly', I would use that instead. If this is a non-starter -- if everyone simply must be on the same update cadence -- then please, please stop hassling me about the update process and make it automatic like Discord, Steam, or Google Play does, or add an option to do so, anything to alleviate the annoyance.

I will note that we are considering making the 'Update is available' alert a little smaller so you can see more items below it in the left pane.

I can already do this by zooming out on the client with Ctrl-Equals. Please consider something impactful.

[darule0]

Please see attached SignalUpdateConfigs.png for proposed solution to all of these comments.

• @josh-signal